Why You Should be Re-Recruiting Your Current Workforce

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Why You Should be Re-Recruiting Your Current Workforce

Welcome to another exciting episode of All About HR! This is the podcast & video series for HR Professionals and business leaders who want to future-proof their organization and learn about the latest trends & insights from industry experts, CHROs, and thought leaders. 

How can you win the war for talent in the age of the Great Resignation? In our first episode of All About HR season 2, we talk with Lorraine Vargas Townsend — Chief People Officer at ESO — about inclusion and belonging, pay equity, re-recruitment, and more!

Lorraine is an experienced coach and HR consultant whose mission in life is to develop people-first HR policies to build an inclusive, anti-racist workplace. 

In this episode, we’ll talk about: 

  • How to tap into the ‘Hidden Workers’ labor market 
  • Why companies need to re-recruit their employees to battle the Great Resignation
  • Winning the war for talent: The importance of inclusion and belonging at work

Watch the full episode to find out everything you need to know to harness the full potential of your current workforce!

Transcript:

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: The other half of that is what about the 60% who are staying? And what are we doing to be re-recruiting our current workforce and thinking about how we can make their lives better? How do we help them grow? How do we make sure we’re paying them fairly? How do we make sure that we’re flexible enough for them? How do we make sure that they’re growing their skill sets and, in the desires of their heart, the careers that they want to achieve and the things that they want to do with their life?

Neelie Verlinden: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the first episode of season two of All About HR. My name is Neelie. I’m your host and on this first episode, I have the honor to talk to Lorraine Vargas Townsend. She is the Chief People Officer at ESO. And she was also the first guest of season one. So it’s an extra pleasure to have her back on the show. We talked about the 27 million hidden workers in the US and whether or not it’s time to do something about that. We also talked about DEI&IB, and the Great Resignation. As always, Lorraine was super honest with me, gave me her unsalted opinion, no BS, and we had a lot of fun as well. I think it’s time for you to go check out this first episode of season two straight away. Before you do so, as always, subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell, and like this video. Thank you. Bye. 

Neelie Verlinden: Welcome to another episode of All About HR. 

Neelie Verlinden: Hi, everyone. Welcome to our very first episode of season two of All About HR. My name is Neelie, I’m your host, and I am super excited because, for this first episode, I’m going to speak with Lorraine Vargas Townsend. And those of you who have been following our show might remember that Lorraine was also our first guest during season one for the very first episode. Hi, Lorraine, how are you?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: That was so exciting. I didn’t know I was the first one of season two. I think this should be our habit from now on. 

Neelie Verlinden: I’m actually thinking that might be a really good idea, that every time we have a new season come out and then you’re just going to be the guest for the season-opening.

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Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Oh, cool. What an honour.

Neelie Verlinden: And I mean, last time when we were talking Lorraine, you are still in Boston. Now you’re in Austin. Who knows where you might be for the first episode of season three?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: I’ll be in Austin.

Neelie Verlinden: Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. Lorraine, for those who don’t know you yet, so you are the Chief People Officer at ESO. And maybe you can tell us a little bit more about the company and of course also about yourself, like what you’re doing and what your purpose is?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Sure. So, ESO is a company where you can make a difference. Basically, we improve community health and safety by really helping to support first responders like EMS workers, firemen, emergency rooms; helping them with data that helps them improve outcomes for the people in their communities. So it is a company where we are literally impacting people’s lives and saving lives. And that was my requirement for finding my next job. So I’m very excited to be here. I’m on like day six, or something like that. I started the week of Thanksgiving in the US. So on November 22. So I’m still very, very new.

Neelie Verlinden: Yeah. So how, how have the first days been then? How’s the onboarding process?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Well, literally the first three days, it was me and the CEO in the office, and like maybe an IT guy every once in a while. So it was Thanksgiving week, we were still fully remote. So it was really interesting because it’s the first time I’ve been in an office in like two years. And so that was really nice. But also I’ve never started a new job during a holiday week. So the office was closed on Thursday and Friday. The US office was closed on Thursday and Friday. So for those first three days, I did all of the onboarding things that you never do, or you keep putting off and you try to do late at night, like doing the compliance training and things like that. So I actually got to spend time doing my training, reading all the emails that they sent to me before I started working here, and looking at strategy documents and things like that. So that first week was really relaxed. And then last week, it was like that thing that happens when you go somewhere new and like everyone introduces themselves and you’re really excited to meet them and you want to make a good first impression. But you know you’re not going to remember anything that happened. So that was last week. So this week, I hope my retention will start to get good. So we’ll see.

Neelie Verlinden: Exciting times, Lorraine, exciting time. Is there any projects in particular that you are super excited to get started on? Can you share anything about that? Or maybe not?

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Lorraine Vargas Townsend: No, it’s so different Neelie. Like, I took this job, feeling like in my heart that this is the last place I’m going to work. This is my last job. And so I’ve been taking this job and this onboarding and this entry in a way different than any other place I’ve ever worked. And I’m coming in being like, my number one thing is to grow everyone’s career and to leave the legacy that I’ve always wanted to leave behind. This is my last shot. And I know, it’s not my last chance. But that’s how I’m approaching it. Do you know what I mean? And especially with my team, I have a phenomenal team. And so I’m looking at each of the people who report to me and trying to figure out how I can grow them to be my successor, or grow them into the career that they’ve always wanted, instead of coming in with this big agenda like, we’re going to do these 25 things, and I’m going to hit the ground running. It’s really like I’m in learning mode. And I’m trying to learn how I can best serve the employees of the company. And I know that’s going to be helping to unleash their career potential, helping it be literally a great place to work, but not like the survey, like an actual great place to work, a place where you can’t wait to come every day, and a place where you can’t wait to be from. It’s like if you come and join us, we’re gonna grow your skill set, we’re gonna give you the most marketable skills, you’re gonna have a blast, you’re gonna save lives. And then you’ll move on to the next chapter of your life and that’s okay. So it’s just a totally different mindset than I’ve ever had. It’s great.

Neelie Verlinden: I imagine. And I must say, I love that mindset of approaching it like: this is going to be my last role. Or like my last lesson, or let’s say mission because I can imagine if you have that mindset, it completely changes the way you approach things, right?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Yeah, it becomes about everyone else instead of about you. So I was reading this book, it’s called The Second Mountain. And the author, his last name is Brooks. I can’t remember his first name, maybe it’s David Brooks or something like that. And it’s all about like, your first goals in your career, or at the beginning of your life, it’s like, get ahead, climb the ladder, or make the money. You know, it’s just this very singular focus that is like I want to achieve and I want to do the thing. And really successful people, after they hit the top of that mountain, they wonder: so what am I actually leaving behind? What am I actually doing that’s good in the world? And I feel like I was reading that book at exactly the right moment. I turn 45. It’s like midlife crisis, but in an inspirational way, and I’m thinking about how I can really leave the legacy that I want to leave. So it’s cool.

Neelie Verlinden: It’s cool, and I find it very inspiring as well. Okay, I need to get myself back now to today’s conversation, as much as I would love to talk with you about this for another hour. As you may remember, Lorraine, what I always like to do is to kind of find a bit of a red thread throughout the conversation. And so there are 27 million hidden workers in the US. Now that number alone to me was like, wow, that’s so many people. And my second thought immediately was that we’ve been talking for years now about so many companies struggling to find new talent. And then it appears that they’re such a large group of people that basically gets left out often because of ATS systems. And apparently, companies are sometimes also aware of it. Anyhow, I thought that was a very interesting thing, something that we could perhaps have a chat about. The first question here would be what are your thoughts when you hear this, like 27 million hidden workers?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: I mean, first of all, it’s an astonishing number, right? Like, when you look at the noise that every company is making right now around The Great Resignation. It’s not fake. So I’m saying it like that, but it’s not fake. Everybody is resigning. Everybody’s changing jobs right now. And it’s okay. Right? Like there’s a lot contributing to that, which we can also talk about. I’m kind of excited about that topic too. But so the 27 million hidden workers, like I keep going like I need to find those folks, too. I have lots of open positions. And so when you think about what is leading to it, that applicant tracking systems are knocking people out, that there are lots of preconceived notions and bullshit that’s in hiring managers’ brains and recruiting and HR teams’ brains about who is a desirable candidate and who is not. So for instance, in that 27 million hidden workers, one category of those people are people who have several part-time jobs, who would like to have a full-time job. I’m telling you, if there’s a person who has multiple part-time jobs and who is just trying to stop from being under employed, you see that there’s some kind of drive inside of them that’s making them do more and strive more, and to be penalised for that, it’s just completely effing offensive. Right? So yeah, I think that is a very interesting, under-tapped market to go look into. And, you know, while I was reading that, I was thinking about that myself, think about who are part-time workers? There are a lot of people who are first-generation college students who are going to community colleges, who are also working part-time jobs, maybe one or two of them, and who are really trying to achieve something better in their life. I’ve been thinking a lot about this pool of workers. And so my Head of Talent Acquisition and I are planning this event at a local community college. And we’re going there to say that it’s not even about finishing school. It’s like we see you, we see who you are, we see how you’re striving, we see how hard you’re working. And we need that. And so we’re taking a really concerted approach to go tap into that market in particular. And I think that that would be a very interesting market. But it’s also probably because I’m biased because I was one of those guys. I was one of those guys early in my career. But also like the unemployed people who want to return to work, but can’t find their way back in. I also think there’s an untapped market that wasn’t in the research, probably. But that’s the people who’ve worked at companies for 10, 15, 20 years, there’s a bias against those people too, by the way. And so you look at that, and you go: Oh, that person can only succeed at this one company. But that’s bullshit, right? Like, that’s a really interesting market to tap into, too. So I think if we can just be creative. And I think probably something that we talked about in our first interview was that if we can create the right kind of environment, to make everyone feel included and everyone feel like they belong there. I think it’s an interesting recipe for success. And I’m definitely going to be making some experiments around it at my new place. 

Neelie Verlinden: I can’t really wrap my head around it because these are people that really want to work. They sometimes already have a job or even multiple jobs, and yet, we are not hiring them for some reason. And then, on the other hand, you do have these companies also, as you said, complaining about how hard it is to find people. I really can’t figure this out

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: It’s mind-boggling. And if you have an applicant tracking system sorting people out that you don’t even know about or recognise, or where you have your filter set up to really exclude people with these backgrounds, you’re doing yourself a disservice. So I’m excited to try this as an experiment. Maybe we can talk about it in season three. And I can tell you, if we figured it out, I do think that it’s not that the recruiting team doesn’t want to find these folks. I don’t think so. I think that there is kind of reimagining where we’re sourcing, reimagining what we’re doing, what we’re using to exclude people. Tthe way people write job descriptions suck, the requirements that people put on jobs are oftentimes just not real requirements. It’s like, I went to this school, or I have this degree, and so I want everyone on my team to be the same, or at least have what I have. And that’s all just crazy. It’s crazy. So I think it does get back to the discipline of the people and culture team, to take a critical eye to the requirements that people managers are putting in front of us and to throw up a flag when it’s just crap.

Neelie Verlinden: Something else here I’m wondering about when we’re talking about this survey is that isn’t it time to expand the definition of inclusion? Because, you know, so far when we’ve been talking about diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging, it often is about things like race, like gender, like sexual orientation, but isn’t it maybe could we not make a case for expanding this definition to also include all these kinds of hidden workers? What are your thoughts on that?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: I think we have to be careful to not water down the work that needs to happen specifically when it comes to race in the United States. And so I like the sentiment of it. But I think there is so many things broken in the way that our systems are racist, our systems are excluding people. There’s this kind of historical perspective that has been built into our system that it needs to be broken. And so I’m careful with that. But I’ve worked at places where you start to talk about diversity and inclusion, and then the white guys in charge go: Well, you know, there’s diversity of thought. And they’re finding every reason not to stay focused on helping people of colour, of helping people who have systemically been oppressed, of continuing to exclude women. And so I feel we also need to be thinking about that. And by the way, if you look at these underemployed and hidden workers, I suspect that many of them are people of colour, that many of them come from different socio-economic backgrounds, that many of them are women, in the caregiving situation probably. So yes, I do think we need to include it. But no, I don’t want to let people off the hook.

Neelie Verlinden: Yeah, very good nuance there. I think it’s very important to mention that. Last time we spoke, I think it was earlier this year, I think we were pretty much preparing for the great reopening, or at least we were thinking that we were preparing for the great reopening. And now we are in a situation where a lot of companies are reacting to the great resignation. First of all curious to hear your thoughts on this phenomenon.

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: You know, the reason why I’m excited about the great resignation is because I feel like it supports a lot of what I want to do differently at work. So you know, Microsoft just did this survey, and they said something like, 40% of employees are planning to leave their job. And we all know that, especially HR people, right? Like, we’ve seen this in our engagement surveys, like whatever percentage of my workforce says: I’m thinking about leaving in the next year or two. And I guess Microsoft felt like they needed to kind of quantify it globally, to say: No, this really is a thing, thank you.

Neelie Verlinden: And then it became a thing. 

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Exactly. The other half of that is what about the 60% who are staying? And what are we doing to be re-recruiting our current workforce? And thinking about how we make their life better? How do we help them grow? How do we make sure we’re paying them fairly? How do we make sure that we’re flexible enough for them? How do we make sure that they’re growing their skill sets and, in the desires of their heart, the careers that they want to achieve, the things that they want to do with their life? And finally, there’s some pressure for us to get that right. Because it’s not just about recruiting. It is not just about recruiting. And I’ll tell you, every company I’ve joined that is around 500 people or smaller. You walk in the door, you go to the interviews, and they’re like: tell me about your plans for talent acquisition. And I’m just like: I don’t know, there’s lots of people looking for a new job, but tell me about your plans for retaining the people who are already here. Because if we just put half the effort into that, our return will be so much greater. Like that 60% of the people who aren’t even thinking about leaving you right now, in an anonymous survey conducted by a technology giant. So there’s no fear base, like: Oh, I better say I’m going to stay. That’s real data. Think about it like referral bonuses. Right? We give referral bonuses to everyone in the company to be like, please help me find some new talent. Well, what if we gave retention bonuses to managers who had 100% employee retention on their team? Or what if we got employees together to say: look, we’re running a contest to figure out how we can be the most retentive employer in the industry, give us your ideas and the best ideas, we’ll get a bonus or get a prize or get a special vacation for their family when the COVID restrictions lift. Right? And it’s the same thing. I mean, it’s no different than thinking about sales, right? Like you think about software sales. And you look at the way you compensate salespeople. We give them so much money and incentives and bonuses to go out and gain new logos or to go get new companies on board. But if you look at your attrition rates of your software subscribers, you go: Holy shit, should we be doing the same thing to Customer Care? Should we be doing the same thing to those organisations that are tasked with the care and feeding of our current clients? I mean, come on. It’s so it’s so parallel, right? 

Neelie Verlinden: You know what I was thinking of Lorraine. This is what companies always do when they get new customers, who always get these fantastic offers, right? Or they get all these kinds of nice welcome gifts because they are just becoming a customer. But so often I wonder about what they are actually doing for those people who have been their customer for like three, 5, 10, 15, maybe even 20 years. We are putting a lot of time and attention into the hiring of new people. And yes, if somebody within the company refers a fantastic candidate that becomes hire then they get a referral bonus, and etc, etc. But what are we actually doing for the people that wants to stay, and that maybe has been with the company for several years?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Yeah, and you know, how I was telling you about this new chapter of my life, and entering into my job this way, I’m like: those are my people. If I can go out and very purposefully build talent and culture programmes around that 60%, then that 60% is going to grow, it’s going to multiply, because when you see that your employer is appreciating you, that they’re growing you, that they’re paying attention to you, it makes it a lot harder to look somewhere else, especially if you’ve had more than one job. If it’s your first job, okay, you’re gonna go because you need to go sew your oats, to find what it’s like, but the people who have worked at other places, they know when they found a good place. And so yeah, I’m like these are my people right now and that’s the people I’m going to focus on. 

Neelie Verlinden: Nice. That’s very beautiful to hear. Now, about this great resignation and the opportunity for companies it also presents, because I think it presents them a very nice opportunity that’s twofold. So on the one hand, to hopefully find amazing people, but on the other hand, also to really make a conscious effort to keep the people that are still with them happy or maybe even happier. But so Lorraine, would you then say that this is also a great opportunity for companies to finally maybe get serious about belonging, and being inclusive? And then by extension, being more diverse?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Yes. I hope so. I feel like if you’re not thinking about that, and if you’re not working towards that right now, it’s specifically in the US, but I do think it’s global. I think if you’re not thinking about these topics, right now, then are you living under a rock? You know what I mean. If this isn’t the thing that you’re working on, if this isn’t worrying you, if this isn’t keeping you up at night, you’re never going to win the war for talent, you’re never going to be the person who everybody wants to come work for. And I think with COVID, employees have had two years of self-reflection, right? They’ve had two years of thinking: am I really in the career that I want to be in? Am I in the community I want to be in? You know, like, I was listening to some podcasts and they were saying…I kind of wish I could remember which one it was right now. I like to give people credit. If they were saying like, you know, for these past two years, like before these two years of COVID, people were giving up the places that they wanted to live, they were giving up time with their kids and their family. And it was normal, right? They were giving up their health, they were giving up time to rest and relax and go on vacation because that’s what work demanded and work was winning, right? Like, people were just going full stop, and then COVID. And we all go home. And everybody’s like sitting at home with their kids for the first time in however long, right? They’re getting to go to every soccer game, or every football game, right? They’re taking a vacation in their own home. And they’re really starting to work on the home that they’re in. They’re deciding very deliberately who is in their bubble or who is in their community. So they’re creating community in a way that is not work-centred. And so everything shifted from the thinking that as an employee, my job is my life. Right? It’s the much more European style of thinking about life anyway as I lived in France for five years and this was how French people thought about things right? And I loved that. But it is like I live for my life and I work to support my life. And so I feel like the pendulum swinging that way drives the need for employers to be thinking about belonging and inclusion. Because if you aren’t focused on community at work, then I dare you to try to make employees come back to the office. Like, go for it, and I’ll hire your employees. It’ll be great.

Neelie Verlinden: No, but that I think that is a very good point that you’re making that you’re making there. And I loved what you were seeing there and how it went from what happened during the pandemic, and how people started to be in their own bubble in their own community, actually, which is so very much in line with what matters to them. And so in a way, because we’re seeing such a big increase focus now on belonging, and the importance of that, to having that sense of belonging. We already spoke about it, you know, in episode one. But it kind of feels like this is something that came from within people.

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: There was this kind of one movement that said work-life balance isn’t a thing. It’s work-life integration. It was like companies saying that your work and your life, they go together and it’s really hard to separate the two. But they were saying that work-life integration from the employer perspective, right? It was like, yes, you bring your whole self to work, because I want you to stay here forever. And I’m also going to give you lots of free snacks, and beer at five o’clock. And like, Yeah, this is your life, just stay here. This is your life. And like the now employees are empowered. Employees have put themselves in this thing, which it’s not even like a collective. It’s not like unions have brought them together for them to rise up. It’s not that. It’s exactly what you said, Neelie, it’s this internal thing, like I have decided for myself as a human being what I want out of my life, and man, that gives me chills, like that makes me happier. And that’s what life is right? Like, that’s what life is about. And I think employers have to embrace that and ask: how do we tap into it? And how do we help our employees even lean into that, because they’ll be better at work? If they come to us that way, they’ll stay longer if we support them that way. And that’s what work has to be. Like that is the codependent or symbiotic relationship, that actually makes sense for humanity,

Neelie Verlinden: I really have nothing intelligent to add to that. That was very well said. I think Lorraine, thanks so much for that. So I mentioned earlier that we just recently published our HR trends for 2022. And so one of the things that we had in there was also impactful rewards. Now so you know, following what we’ve just been talking about the importance of belonging, and so I can kind of see a link here. But first question, Lorraine, would be what are you seeing in when it comes to impactful rewards?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: So I don’t know. You know, I think rewards always starts from the same place, right? And I feel like when HR people start talking about rewards, it worries me. Like my alarms go up, or the hair on the back of my neck stands up, because I wonder: Are you about to think about everything you can do besides paying people fairly? Right? Like, are you about to talk to me about how you say thank you at work?

Neelie Verlinden: Basically making all the excuses possible not to pay people fairly, right?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Let’s start at the beginning the bottom of the pyramid. So first, tell me that you’re paying all your HR people at the market rate. Because you’re not. I mean, at least I’ve inherited lots of HR teams with underpaid HR people and underpaid recruiters. Then tell me that you give them fair time off and that you also encourage them to take it and that you leave them alone when they take their time off so that they can actually recharge, and that you make sure they take more than like a long weekend. Okay, do that. Then make sure you have enough people so that they’re not doing like four jobs, and they’re really just doing the job. That’s fair, that can be accomplished in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe it’s 40 hours, maybe it’s 35. Maybe it’s 42. I don’t know. But like an amount of time that is reasonable. And then after that, when you can tell me that that’s all done, then give them some coaching, right? So I just think that there’s so much missing and that HR and compensation and CEOs and business leaders have gotten away with not paying people what they’re worth in the market. They’ve gotten away with paying women less than they paid men, with paying people of colour less than they pay both of those categories. And, you know, with the great resignation, there are so many understaffed teams. And there are so many people doing two jobs or three jobs. And I think it would be very impactful if we can fix that basic stuff. And then yes, I think whatever you need to do to coach people to grow them or whatever, that’s the thing that makes people stay. That’s the thing that re-energises people. But if you’re starting with a broken foundation, then I’m sorry. I don’t care about your rewards if you’re not doing the basics first. And I just feel like maybe it’s tech, right? Like I’ve been in tech for a while. And maybe it’s just tech, maybe all these other industries have it down, right? And they’re doing all the good things. But please, HR leaders ask yourself that first. That’s what I would say.

Neelie Verlinden: Yeah. Thanks so much, Lorraine. I think I’m gonna strike one of our trends off the list for next year. I’m kidding. Jokes aside, I think this is a very fair point. 

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: How many trends do you have? You have 11? 

Neelie Verlinden: 11. So you know, then we’ll have two hands full and that’s enough. Another thing. It’s a very different thing, actually. Something that we didn’t talk about last time and something that I am wondering about because what we’re doing now, on a podcast, we are talking sometimes about cliches that exists out there about HR. So what I wanted to ask you is what do you feel is one of the biggest cliches that exist about HR?

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: That we’re people person. Like I’m a people person. I got into HR because I want to help people. I feel like that’s like the big cliche. And it’s funny, because, like cliches exist for a reason, right? Because they were true at one point, and then it became like the stereotype, and then it just became the butt of a joke. And I would say that probably 100% of the HR people I’ve ever met, when they first got into HR, they actually cared about helping people. And I would say, as the tenure increased, or as industrial norms changed over time, the people-centric nature of our work just got smaller and smaller and smaller. And so I think that is a big cliche. There was a time when I was like hiring HR people or talent acquisition people and when I asked: Why are you in HR? How did you get in HR? If their answer was because I want to help people, I wouldn’t hire them, because I just knew they were going to be unhappy. I knew that it was just never going to work out. And the times were different. There was a time when it was just like, we’re so strategic, and we have our seat at the table. And we want to drive the business agenda. And we want to lead with data. And we want to do everything that the business says. And that’s how we add value. And that’s how we prove value. And that’s how you were successful. Right? And if you didn’t come to me saying I’m an analytic person and I use all the data to back up any opinion I’ve ever had, then I was like: well, you’re probably not going to be successful in this company, or, you know, in this department or what whatnot. But I do think it’s changing. And maybe I’m changing. I know, I’m changing, right? Like, I know that I’m in this different time of my life, but I also think work is changing. I think employees are changing, the expectations are different. And I think probably now if you don’t tell me how you care about people, I would never hire you. So um, so yeah, that’s a good question after reflecting more on it.

Neelie Verlinden: Yeah. Well, then when you when you’re back for season three, then you might have a different answer or you may have the same answer, Lorraine. Now, something else that I always love to do. And this one you know, is to ask you about an epic win and an epic fail. Now mind you, you already shared one with us. No, actually one of each. You shared with us, of course, when you were here on the first episode of season one, but maybe there have been a few epic wins or a few epic fails over the past nine months.

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: I mean, I think I had an epic win by finding this job that I’m in right now. I have an executive team that’s half women and half men. There’s queer people on the executive team besides me. Right like there are Latinos on the team that besides me and I just feel really grateful and you know, really happy that I found my last job. So I would say that’s my big win. And my epic fail. Oh my gosh, if I tell you this, I think I might get hate mail. So I just want to prepare you for the comments section. So I got a puppy. And I got it for my daughter’s fifth birthday. And, you know, she was nine weeks old. And we had her for about three weeks. And I was like, I can’t deal with this. Like, it was all the biting. Like, she was biting my clothes, she’s fighting my daughter. It was just so intense. And then like, she was having bathroom accidents everywhere. And we were doing training, but we weren’t vigilant enough. And I feel like we just didn’t have enough time to give it the right attention. So I sent her to doggy boot camp. And she’s away from us now getting trained by someone else. And I feel like such a failure that I can’t train my own dog. And she’s gonna be gone for until right before Christmas. Like she’s gonna be gone for three weeks. And everyone’s like: How’s your new puppy? Or where’s your new puppy? And I’m just like she’s not here.

Neelie Verlinden: Well, I have to say that must be the most original epic fail that I’ve heard so far, and I think it will remain the most epic fail for quite a while. So thank you so much for sharing that Lorraine. Also, thank you so much for being here again. I really really enjoyed it. As always, and I think I’m just going to wish you all the luck in the world and lots of fun and, and awesome colleagues. Yeah, in your adventure at ESO. 

Lorraine Vargas Townsend: Thank you so much. I’m always happy to come and spend my time with you. So anytime I’m happy to be back.

Neelie Verlinden: And thank you for tuning in to this episode of All About HR. I hope you enjoyed it just as much as I did. If you did subscribe to the channel, hit the notification bell and don’t forget to like this video. Thank you so much and see you soon for a new episode. Bye

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